Pioneering Education

Dr. Robert Steedman, MD, DABTS, DABS,interviewed by Dr. Michael Seffinger, DO

March 28, 2003
(Edited as requested by Dr. Steedman, August 3, 2005)

Dr. Seffinger: Tell us about yourself and how did you get involved in this profession to begin with.
Dr. Steedman: Well, I was interested in medicine & thought I was into medicine and even surgery from the time I was in high school. Even times when I thought that I did not have the direction towards medicine my friends, my family, and this one lady that I recall, Mrs. Davis -who was a doctor of philosophy - felt I had the means of being a physician and she felt that I should follow this profession. Therefore I kept looking towards this, my education at the manual arts high school, was towards going to college at UCLA. And I had hoped to continue and I wanted to continue in the letters and science, and the biology and hopefully pre-med. aspect. During UCLA's period it was a very difficult time, at that time you had to have a very high grade-point-average, and you had very tough classes- Vic probably remembers because he went to UCLA also, only he was 2 years ahead of me- that in the undergraduate classes it was extremely difficult to pull grades.
Dr. Seffinger: About what year was this?
Dr. Steedman: This was in 1951 through 1955. At that time the undergraduate courses- as I mentioned- were very difficult, and I recall that one chemistry professor one time- we had about 600 individuals in his classroom he made a comment- “I see everybody’s interested in taking this course”- there were about 100 people more than there were seats – then he says “I thought I’d give a little announcement-he says- before I finish this presentation, there will be enough seats for everyone.” At that time, the doors opened in the back and the hundred people who didn’t have a seat, they left and there were enough seats for everyone. So, it was a difficult 2 years and the senior years at UCLA were excellent because we got into scientific research, experimental embryology, biology. I was a bacteriology major and a zoology minor, and the reason I wasn’t a pre-med. major is because the pre-med. majors were hated by the rest of the students because we tried so hard for grades which increased the class averages. Near the end of the 3rd or 4th year, at that time then you could meet with counselors, in respect to considering what you were going to do, especially when you’re going into medicine. I met with the counselors at UCLA, with a very close friend of mine, who has also been a close friend of Vic’s- I talked to Jack Mossler and we mentioned that we’d like to go to UCLA possibly for our medical school training. However, UCLA was not accredited yet. They were only in the first 2 years, so they hadn’t graduated a class. I had real good rapport with the counselor and he asked me if I had funds and etc., and I said no, I would probably have to work to get through school. At that time I was working, actually, with two osteopathic physicians. And they were very good physicians, they were excellent, good with their patients, they had an excellent rapport, they even had the emergency aspect to their office. At that time, that was very common in California. You didn’t have the sophisticated emergency rooms in most hospitals. So, I worked there as an aide while a UCLA undergraduate, to gain experience. We would see patients, be called in at any time, and inform the doctor what we had. It never got out of control, because they were always available to come in for suturing, and for very sick patients. And I helped every available opportunity. It stimulated my drive towards a medical education. My finances were difficult, my folks had struggled through the depression and scholarships were very difficult to come by at that time at UCLA in pre-med. I was offered a scholarship in theater arts- which wouldn’t have helped; and I had opportunities through languages as I was president of the Latin Club and participated in on-campus development of the Latin club in high school. But again it would not give me any scholarships towards the courses I had to take for pre-medicine. So, these two physicians met and talked to me and said they would help me through school and help me with finances if needed. And I had opportunity to work occasionally with them and study at the same time. So I did not apply to UCLA or any other medical schools, but applied directly to the College of Osteopathic physicians and Surgeons (COP&S), had the interviews and was very impressed with the first tours of the facility and their association with the county hospital Unit II what they had to offer. In their program they had extra hours of training over at the allopaths' and the summers were spent partially with extra training in manipulation as well as basic studies. The basic studies and courses were all very similar to the allopathic schools except for the increased PM&R (Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation). This to me was the best of all worlds. Accepted in 1955 and attending my first freshman class, low & behold, right next to me was an individual I had considered a person to emulate- Victor Passy!
Dr. Passy: “Thank you.”
Dr. Steedman: Staying very involved and enthusiastic in sports and having to work part-time with the study schedule. I recall going home from school the days that I did not have to work and going to sleep at about 6 PM, awaken at midnight and study till 6 A.M. I did very well in certain grades, and I made it a point to be proud of our school and I went after a couple of top courses to show myself it was possible to maintain a top of class position in some courses.. And I had extra education at UCLA in microbiology and all of the associated microbiology courses, so I went after the microbiology course at COP&S and was sort of hassled by friends increasing the average. Dr. Grace Bell was the Dean, a biochemist so knowledgeable and so dedicated in teaching and encouraging student participation, she would give people projects to participate in class presentations and want you to correlate what you knew about biochemistry to a patient that you were treating because of having to apply clinically the learned basics, and also to prove how outstanding a teacher and leader continued to be. I took diabetes, and with diabetes and the Krebb cycle and etc., I applied all those things that I was learning in that course, to my patient’s disease process. Fibrosis and everything from his acidosis that I saw developing…atherosclerosis, coronary artery disease… gave me a real stimulus in using our early training to diagnosis and apply treatment to patients.. Dr. Bell was just outstanding. From the time I also got to the school, I was very, very interested in our fellow students. We had 102 students that were in our original class. It did drop and we dropped down I think in the third year to about between 90 and 99. We had some deaths; we had a few people that actually were held back to go on a year later. We had a few people who dropped out with medical illnesses and everything. But from the first time, I was involved, we had elections and I really wanted to know everybody’s names and everything, so I ran for treasurer. And it was a very democratic process- I hope- and I ended up getting that job and we ended up with one of the highest dues of any class that had been there which was 10 dollars a year per person which was a little tough for some of these individuals because there were still financial problems at that time. The economy was not that good. But with that, we did many things. We actually put together a medical insurance policy where the physicians associated with COP&S offered and donated their time for the medical and surgical and specialty treatment, and we had an insurance company then that helped with hospitalization and we had the hospital there that also donated time. It was not the big hospital yet, the new hospital. And so for that 10 dollars, in which we went to the rest of the student body to get them to pay dues of 10 dollars, we had an excellent insurance policy- and this was for families and everything.
Dr. Seffinger: So that the students, their families could receive health insurance on cost, and not have to pay physician’s fees or hospital fees?
Dr. Steedman: Correct.
Dr. Seffinger: Wow.
Dr. Steedman: Part of the 10 dollars would go for some fees in the hospital, which at that time, surprisingly, would do a pretty good job. So there were about 400 students, I think, in COP&S at that time. So it’s 400 times ten, and I that’s 400 times 10 and I would assume that’s about 4,000 dollars that we had, kind of worked for everybody. In addition, the staff and the alumni were so supportive, and they were unbelievable, and these individuals in the specialties of general surgery, orthopedics, head and neck, neurosurgery and everything else, would hold parties for the students, and there were some various professional organizations that we all belonged to – you (Dr. Passy), belonged to the LOG, if I remember right- I belonged to the ITZ, I would recall, Sigma. We worked for the school but the attending always had things for us, there were always get-togethers and parties, and that time there were no extra payments, finances and everything else. We all went, wonderful times. Of course, we knew these individuals. One of them was Dr. Dorothy Marsh, who was just always outstanding and contributing to the students. We also were able to see how qualified they were in their specialty and of course, I think they made back their contributions in respect to the referrals they had from classes, so it was a constant
Dr. Seffinger: Do you feel the profession was tight-knit like that because of the oppression, political repression or things like that? Do you think it was more so?
Dr. Steedman: Absolutely. We were considered Avis rather than Hertz by most everybody out there - and we did try harder. The strategy of education in many ways appeared superior . An example was our anatomy course, which was all the way through the first year. In most other medical schools in California they would have exposure only a third of the year, so they would have to cram all of their anatomy in 15 – 17 weeks. In many areas, I think the education was superior. There were always times, when we had the opportunity to meet with professors and associate professors and the individuals that helped with the presentations to reinforce knowledge, if we didn’t understand the courses. Education was outstanding.
Dr. Seffinger: You went through the second year. Was it similar as it is now, where 2 years you’re on campus and then you go into rotations the third year, fourth year type thing?
Dr. Steedman: Two years were all academic and primary book learning and many of us had opportunities to adjunct that with jobs that we had. I know that Vic worked in laboratories, if I remember right. So he knew the hematology and everything else, and many of his friends did this. In our second year we did get more clinical. We started getting into diseases rather then just histology. We started getting into pathology, with all the true diseases and correlating them with the findings and everything else and internal medicine. And that was very concentrated in the third year; we had a clinic. It was right on the corner of Mission, right next to the college itself, COP&S. We all had patients in that clinic, and during that time we also had patients who were OB patients. And we followed them and we’d be involved in their deliveries and everything else, and of course, they would go over to the hospital for their deliveries. And the individuals that were through COP&S clinic would also go to the hospital for their care.
Dr. Seffinger: Interesting. So you were patient-oriented at that time so your training was not- just like, let me learn the discipline of this rotation, let’s take care of patients and follow them into the hospital and back, even if you were on a regular rotation, not OB rotation?
Dr. Steedman: Right. Correct. The third year wasn’t as today where many of the students are sent out into clinical situations into hospitals around Orange county. We would go to the hospitals when our patients would go there, but we were still receiving academic training at that time and many courses. Then you would have your clinic time, often in the afternoons.
Dr. Seffinger: Then you went to fourth year. It was pretty much the similar type of thing?
Dr. Steedman: I should mention one thing that was missing in that third year which probably made me more competent. Everyone had their OB patients and I think I had 2 or 3, and I really read obstetrics because this was a clinical thing, this was a doing type of thing. And they had a mannequin that was in the clinic, and they had one over close to the classroom. So you could always practice with a baby and a mannequin, on deliveries and know all the maneuvers so you could do this. I’d been working in doctor’s offices but I had never seen a delivery. Even on TV, I had never seen a delivery. I’d have patients who would come in, husbands who would get nauseated and sick, fall and cut their head and they would come in and I would close their cuts and put them together and everything else, because they had seen deliveries and I still had not seen one. There were no tapes; it was on TV. They didn’t have tapes at that time. So I kept practicing and practicing, then my three OB patients ended up transferring. And one time we had only a week vacation time off, and during this week vacation this patient was supposed to deliver, she delivered. By the time I got into the county hospital, our senior year was spent in the county hospital, all clinical. In addition to our being near physicians, we were also technicians because we pulled all the blood on our patients and we did all the basic laboratory studies- we did the blood counts, urinalysis, some of the smears and cultures, and the gram stains At the time the intern was like a deity there, one step under the Lord, and the resident was the active person, in control of everything. But in the hospital, all during the day it was primary residents and interns. We as students participated, we stayed with them, rotated with them, we stayed nights on OB call and we would help deliver babies and everything else. I spent extra time there because I had never seen a delivery. So, being single, I could stay there and study in the OB room. Then if someone would come up to be evaluated, I would evaluate them, check them and when they were ready to deliver, I would go in, tell the intern and students and I’d say “this patient is ready to deliver. Do you guys want to come in or do you want me to get things started?” and not too seldom, they would say, “oh, we’d appreciate it if you would just go ahead.” So by the time I finished my senior year, I had had a great experience in obstetrics. I also spent a lot of time in surgery. During that senior year, I was very active, and in my junior year, I was very active. And I ran for student body president. I don’t believe I was ever president of our class because Vic Kovner said that he would run for position of President of the class for that sophomore year, and I’d run for Vice-President. Then he wouldn’t run for student body President in our junior year, however, Vic was a politician and he ran for student body president, but I did become student body president. It was an excellent exposure and honor and the alumni were always so supportive. We were active with that Alumni Association so we knew what was going on with the school and potential amalgamation and purchase of and construction of county Unit II..
Dr. Seffinger: Could you explain what you mean - the alumni were supportive, how did the alumni support students and school?
Dr. Steedman: The alumni at that time would support the students and have special alumni meetings and they would have the meetings and social get-togethersinvite the students and assist to help them along. They had a student loan organization. The Alumni were there to act as big brothers as well. If certain students were having problems in a certain specialty in studying then they could get together with these alumni and they would meet with them and go over certain things and help them in the courses. They were there also to help with the annual class parties by donating certain amounts of money. We would collect money from all the students in the class and then the Alumni Association would help us or even allow us to have our parties at their homes or other places. So they were always contributing to the education and to support the maintenance of students..
Dr. Seffinger: Right, so you had role models.
Dr. Steedman: Right, in the Alumni Association.
Dr. Seffinger: Yeah. Were there a lot of them or just a small group of them?
Dr. Steedman: You know, I’m sure looking back now there were a small group but there were at least 10 to 30 general surgical specialists. There were at least 10 orthopedics specialists and then they were on the staff and taught the residents at the County Hospital. There were multiple OBGYN residents. We had an individual that was way ahead of his time and he was primarily a proctological surgeon. He was absolutely spectacular. He could – many jokes have been made about this – but he could literally perform a hemorrhoidectomy perfect and get the people over without a lot of pain and he was called “the prince of proctology.” They would teach you and the residents would take over. In the senior year, we had a great deal of responsibilities. Most of this year was performed in the red building which was at that time Unit Two, College of Osteopathic Physicians and Surgeons and I believe we might have moved into the County to do some work the last part of our senior year.
Dr. Passy: When we first started we were still students and we went through the building in April and they opened it up in June. Yeah we were the first class to go in.
Dr. Steedman: We went in as senior students to do some work. We were the first intern class then.
Dr. Seffinger: Okay, so let’s talk about that a second about 1956 you said you were in school at the time and at that time they had the red building which was built like in 1932 or something like that or it was built way before that. So you were in that building for training but then something happened in 1956 that enabled the new building to be built, do you want to talk about that for a little bit.
Dr. Steedman: We had been hearing for a long period of time that there was a big move to develop finance to be able to build a County Hospital that would be osteopathic and that County Hospital would be sponsored by certain of the Senators. Even as students we went out and talked to individuals and to various legislators and discussed the need for a new osteopathic hospital and how we could better serve the community. That building was built for a little under $10 million and the COA did contribute some finances. As students we campaigned to get individuals to vote for the bonds that would pay for that hospital.
Dr. Seffinger: Wow. I don’t know if there was another situation like this where you as a profession were able to get a hospital basically given to you by the taxed dollars of the people of that county specifically for your profession.
Dr. Passy: Up until that time we were using this old building...
Dr. Seffinger: This was primarily a student supported process; you think or is this also...
Dr. Steedman: I wouldn’t say primary because we were directed and...
Dr. Seffinger: So there were other people that were trying to push this and you guys were...
Dr. Steedman: We were motivated by the administration, by the Alumni Association, and the legislatures who knew what they were doing. Senator Teale was one of the three instrumental in getting the hospital built and money donated for this construction.
Dr. Seffinger: I see, so this was a plan they probably started earlier in the early ‘50s perhaps working on it quite a bit.
Dr. Steedman: Individuals such as Dorothy Marsh and Forest Grunigen were very active in this, as well as many others...
Dr. Seffinger: Taylor?
Dr. Steedman: No, he and Forest Grunigen were just like brothers - best friends and everything else and did so much for the school. I can’t remember his name.
Dr. Passy: There is a trust in his name.
Dr. Seffinger: Okay, so that will come up later, so the people passed this. What was it called? It wouldn’t be a resolution, but what would it be called, a fund.
Dr. Steedman: They passed an appropriation of funds through. I don’t know if it was California – it must be County...
Dr. Seffinger: It was L.A. County.
Dr. Steedman: L.A. County bill for bonds to be obtained and used for the financing.
Dr. Seffinger: And so they built this hospital in a period of three or four years. It took a couple of years.
Dr. Steedman: I think so, it was ready by 1959.
Dr. Seffinger: Okay, at that time you were graduating in that year as well. So that’s when you kind of started to move into that hospital in your senior year and you graduated and then continued working there.
Dr. Steedman: Whether or not you continued depended upon where you drew to have your internship.
Dr. Seffinger: It was like a lottery or something.
Dr. Steedman: Right, but you would apply to the schools. It wasn’t a true matching program. It was one that you would apply and you would give all of your credentials at the County Hospital to be accepted. If you had had military service they kept two years of military service. I was in the reserve officer’s training in UCLA so I had two years, but they didn’t give me credit for that two years. Acceptance (was based) on grade point averages, military service, any prior professional status etc.
Dr. Passy: You applied for an internship through the various hospitals and the administration of those hospitals would look over your application and either accept you or reject you.
Dr. Steedman: Then you had reviews from the residents and from the attending as to your senior student evaluation performance.. And you had to fulfill a certain point average to be able to be an intern at the County and there were other excellent hospitals that were out in the area. One was Rio Hondo Memorial excellent training almost all osteopathics practiced in that hospital but there were other MD’s practicing in that hospital also.
Dr. Passy: Burbank Hospital that was an osteopathic hospital; that hospital at the top of the hill off of the 5 Freeway, I can’t think the name of it, (? Carson?) from the St. Joseph’s Hospital.
Dr. Seffinger: This was the only County Hospital you had a choice to go, right.
Dr. Steedman: Yes, yes you couldn’t apply to any other schools at that time or any other hospitals - osteopathic only at that time.
Dr. Seffinger: Okay.
Dr. Steedman: And there was just one other hospital and that was called Pacific Hospital in Long Beach. They had a good program and the majority there were mainly osteopathic physicians and specialists and then later on many MD’s...
Dr. Seffinger: Let me ask you a question about the specialist. It seemed to me that there were a lot of specialists coming out of COP&S. The people who graduated were most of your classmates specialists or most interested in general practice.
Dr. Steedman: At that time more individuals were interested in specialties. Later many individuals felt it might be easier to go into family practice and at that time it was an excellent opportunity because they had so many educators when we moved into UCI. So at that time it became I believe a higher percentage of family practice and when the family practice boards came in you had to give your extra years to be boarded, etcetera, then I think there was more of a switch.
Dr. Seffinger: Oh, I see.
Dr. Steedman: When you knew that they would have a better opportunity at some of the specialties because when the amalgamation came through there weren’t many opportunities for individuals to get into training programs and the osteopaths weren’t sure whether they should continue to go through it didn’t have all the specialties available for the number that wanted to go into specialties.
Dr. Passy: What percentage of our class were family practice and what percentage went into specialty?
Dr. Steedman: I think there was about 50/50.
Dr. Passy: Might be, maybe 50/50.
Dr. Seffinger: But increasingly in the 1950’s there seemed to be more interest and more interest in specialized - but you also had the training available, particularly in the County Hospital.
Dr. Passy: I think at the time, we were at the point that we didn’t know where we were going and where osteopathy was going to lead us. It was at the point where we were seeking of changing the DO to MD degree and so, we didn’t know if we wanted to go into specialty or go into family practice. I think a good portion, maybe 50 percent of the people who were single to go ahead take the change and try to get into specialty and not get it and not get specialization and go into family practice. But I think 50 percent is about right - 50/50.
Dr. Steedman: It was difficult to obtain osteopathic specialty residencies and fellowships. When I finished my senior year, they had a rotation and they only had three general surgical residents at that big County Hospital. They had one senior, they had one junior.. And at that time the requirements were three years to become certified with the osteopathic profession in general surgery. You had good training if you were at the County, I mean you did everything you could possibly imagine. You had to find the time to study the didactic along with the amount of clinical work. The County Unit II continuing with MD’s as mentors. Many applied to specially training under the MD programs.
Dr. Seffinger: So this is after internship, you mean?
Dr. Steedman: This was after internship and after the first three years of training as osteopathic surgeons.
Dr. Seffinger: So you went through in 1960, 61, 62 at County Hospital training as a surgeon under DO’s primarily and then there was a switch in the hospital to MD staff could come in and be available to you – was that about 1962, 63 around there and then you began training...
Dr. Passy: ’62 became University California Medical College, California College of Medicine. It did not have a University Association at that time.
Dr. Seffinger: Right, that was the school changed but the hospital itself was L.A. County Osteopathic Hospital until about 1962 and then it changed its name to just L.A. County Hospital?
Dr. Steedman: It was called the L.A. County Osteopathic Hospital - Unit Two until the change, and then it became the L.A. County Hospital - Unit Two.
Dr. Seffinger: Okay, then at that point you continued training under different surgeons, so you had how many years of postgraduate training in surgery.
Dr. Steedman: Well, I went on at the County Hospital for another two years. After the first three years, I had general surgery. So it was extended out to what was called the fourth year then the fifth year was extended out called supervising resident. It was excellent training because at this point the first three years probably didn’t give us much training as we could use in the complicated surgeries but in that fourth and fifth year thoracics came into play, pancreatic surgery came into play which was just developing at the time, extensive bowel surgery, abdominal perineal resections, trauma cases and we were always having trauma cases, so we were already educated in thoracic and other things. In Vic’s specialty, other things that preceding it in fact he started really doing thyroids and the carotid surgeries.
Dr. Passy: We really didn’t how the specialties of the allopathic association would treat us in terms of our training as DOs. I particularly thought that in order for them to accept me where I am, I certainly had to do my residency over again and I heard rumors that if I didn’t do extra training, do some kind of allopathic specialty training that the association specialty would not take me into their training or eligible. So I particularly, I not only completed my four years of specialty but I went on another three years to take on my specialty hopeful that they would accept me and they finally let me take the boards and I had passed them.
Dr. Seffinger: Wow, seven years.
Dr. Passy: Seven years.
Dr. Seffinger: Oh my goodness.
Dr. Steedman: I had eight and half.
Dr. Seffinger: Gees.
Dr. Steedman: And I extended out because I figured if I was going to put in this other time close to five years I already have a moderate amount of training in thoracic then I would go on into thoracic cardiovascular. So I did and beyond that time I went to Rancho Los Amigos, I was teaching and supervising resident at that time and I was doing thoracic, vascular, general and teaching other fellow residents students there. And then from there I went to Long Beach Veterans Hospital as a thoracic and cardiovascular surgical resident and of course I was the only one so I was chief and senior as well as being the first. Excellent training there under Dr. Edward Stemmer, that was there and Dr. Connelly was also on the staff and it was unforgettable year, in fact during that year I taught students and I taught students all the way through their four years. I would go and teach the anatomy, I would go and teach surgery all various types of surgical aspects, I was a bug on pre-operative and post-operative care and preparation of your patient and I received my most honored award I‘ve ever received and I received it from the University of California at Irvine on the basis of the votes of all the students and this one class that I had taught for four years voted me for the golden apple award at UCLA for the individual that had taught them the most over the four years in general surgery. And I was so proud of that. I did not know that I was the first resident to ever receive a University of California Golden Apple Teaching Award. I don’t know whether it stopped after that but it was another reason to really make me feel so close to the profession and what I’ve had in the basic training. Then after Long Beach, I came back to the Orange County Medical Center, it was called at that time. UCI had not purchased it yet. It became the UCI Medical Center. So I trained another year there, so I’m at eight, and then Dr. Connelly arranged for me to go back and take a part-time or fellowship at the Cleveland Clinic. So I went back there. They actually accepted me from Boards from once I had finished to Long Beach and also through Medical Center at UCI and then I took the Boards.
Dr. Seffinger: Okay, so picking up, ah, we are going to discuss about the Alumni Association that Dr. Steedman was involved in also the beginning of the 41st Trust which led on to a research program in manipulation at UC – Irvine - would you like to talk about that?
Dr. Steedman: After I had been out in practice for a few years and started to build my practice which when you go to practice and you come out of school and you are a youngster going out to practice, you’re really put to the test. They don’t give you a heart surgery right away to do. They don’t quickly give you the difficult thoracic care surgical procedures, but they give you a patient that has asthma possibly. Say, you give this real sick asthmatic and we’ll start thinking about you as a thoracic surgeon so you are there doing all this work And then after I had been involved in these cases and I was proving my worth, starting to become busy I was contacted by the Alumni Association, Associate AACCM, Associated Alumni of California College of Medicine and this is getting near the end of the day and I would have to think of the two individuals. The president and the former president of the Alumni Association asked me if I would come and become a member of the Board of Directors of the Alumni Association.
Dr. Seffinger: What was the guy’s name, Dr. Pollack was the first president of the Alumni Association wasn’t he, Dr. Pollack, that was ‘61, that was way back before.
Dr. Steedman: Andrew Pollack, I’m talking about 1973, 1974.
Dr. Seffinger: Okay, so we are at ’73. I don’t know who that would be.
Dr. Steedman: Dr. Robert Driebelton was the one that contacted me and his very close friend, Connie Callas, at that time, when of course they were in practice they went different ways, but was ah - you remember the individual who’d also been president of the Alumni Association.
Dr. Passy: Before that?
Dr. Steedman: No, yeah, just before but I’ll come up with that name, but they contacted me and asked me if I would become involved and I did become involved. I was so impressed for what they were doing for the students. Every freshman year starting they gave either Gray’s Anatomy or certain big physiology book or certain other specialty books to all the students from the Alumni Association. Alumni Association did work with the book companies and they did gave them some breaks on the cost but these would be passed down At times we gave them bags, you know actual doctor’s bags for those that were going to be making house calls and everything else on their freshman year. And they used those even during that time. There were many other gifts that we arranged for them and redid the same thing that we had seen former alumni when we were students do and that was they set up a big brother program so you’d be available for any questions they had, any problems they had you would invite them over to your house and you’d take them to conferences sometimes, to Vegas etc and everything else so that they could gain this education. That time things were changing just a little bit, there was more emphasis on the family and many of the individuals coming into medical school had families already and they wouldn’t participate as much in the away trips and everything else, but they would participate in certain educational things in your office, they had the right to come in and spend time with you. In addition, we set up a program for loans. These are called short loans and long-term loans. The loan interest was unbelievable. They didn’t have to start paying back the long term loans until they got out of school and they’d been out of training for a couple of years and then we expected them to pay back so that we would have it available for other individuals.
Dr. Seffinger: So you got the alumni, all the docs to chip in to make this alumni fund available.
Dr. Steedman: That’s correct.
Dr. Passy: You have to remember that the organization did do that.
Dr. Steedman: And then there were short terms loans also. We were building a fund all the way along in addition to the Alumni Asociation donations was made from some of our alumni and very generous donations. Some individuals were retiring - they had been impressed with the school - impressed with the alumni and they donated certain funds and these funds were put in special accounts to raise finance. Certain individuals donated stocks to us at one time, ah, painting - paints, stock in paints and paints just went bananas for awhile and the stocks were good so we could use these for these purposes. It was also used for alumni education and every year there was an alumni annual meeting which included education from our alumni or other primarily speakers that would come in their specialties and we would go to various places. We went to Hawaii. We went to San Diego at times. We went to Palm Springs at times and it really pulled out a large group and there was a great deal of participation.
Dr. Seffinger: Was this separate from the California Osteopathic Association and CMA, California Medical Association who had probably similar types of programs I would imagine, you know, support for the students and some quick ways to helped them out. So you guys were separate and you’re more personable, more in touch with students.
Dr. Steedman: This was the Alumni Association that was the Alumni Association of UCI and the name was changed later and it was changed about 15 times, but it became the University California - Irvine California College of Medicine Alumni. Then it changed later on to the University of California College of Medicine Alumni Association.
Dr. Passy: You have to understand that coming from a defunct school the graduates had to hold on to something and the only thing they had to hold onto was this Alumni Association because otherwise they would be lost in the wilderness and that was a kind of esprit de corps. This Alumni Association that was developed and that Dr. Steedman and the other presidents had developed this thing to such an extent that every one looked forward to an annual meeting where they could all get together with their families and enjoy the good old days that they used to have and this esprit de corps they could experience with one another. So it was something to look forward to on a usual basis and then things kind of fell apart a little.
Dr. Steedman: Well, that’s the Alumni Association, we can get into that later, but one of the other things that was important I think that everyone has to realize is that the doctors of osteopathy had a big thing to carry on their shoulders. They had a monkey on their back for a long time because many people didn’t know what an osteopath was until the big school, the big hospital was built and everything else and immediately an osteopath was always understood to be a chiropractor because they did manipulation. So the students, the graduates were continually educating people, letting them know what happened in their training, what was going on, how they were educated and everyone else. When it opened up for the opportunity when it was so limited to get into the very specialty training areas because they were limited, Detroit Osteopathic was one that had one of the best training situations in the best hospitals of all the osteopathic physicians and I can’t remember the doctor back there but it was a surgeon who was very, very busy and in fact he was probably the busiest surgeon in the United States at one time and he was doing great work training many fellows, but there weren’t that many opportunities. When my term came up I had mentioned that there was a first year resident, second year resident, third year resident, that third year resident had graduated, but there was not a position for the first year but one of the residents dropped out so they had only two residents at that time. I applied for that position, but it wasn’t going to be open for a year and I had a lot of recommendations and I did receive that position and at that time before 1962 and the amalgamation and Vic’s residency as well that was one of the preferred residencies in all osteopathic medicine and literally I had a real opportunity. After the amalgamation came through when all of a sudden now all the MDs are looking at the newer MD’s here, they had to really scrutinize the situation. It was a big opportunity to many osteopaths to get that monkey off so they weren’t always having to explain the difference between osteopaths and chiropractic physicians. So, I think this is one of the major reasons that most of the osteopathic physicians went ahead with the amalgamation.
Dr. Seffinger: Detroit didn’t have a school.
Dr. Steedman: Yeah, right, they didn’t have a school they had a major hospital.
Dr. Seffinger: Michigan College of Osteopathic Medicine began in 1969..
Dr. Steedman: Well, anyway this is one of the reasons individuals went in and of course we were the school that was moving down then to UCI, when did we make our move, ’65.
Dr. Passy: ’67.
Dr. Steedman: ’67, we were moving down and we were osteopaths but there were many former osteopaths, there were many MD’s and everything else and there were a lot of different things.
Dr. Seffinger: It was an odd situation I would imagine.
Dr. Steedman: It was a tough amalgamation, but those individuals that involved in the training and Dean Bostick. They were there, they were supportive and they were great educators and it turned out to be an excellent thing, but as time went on I think people kind of looked and said “it would be nice to really kind of boot some of these individuals that were former osteopaths.” Do you think that might have happened, Vic?
Dr. Passy: I’m sure it did, but you can’t really say it did or it didn’t.
Dr. Steedman: Well, they sure wanted to take over our Alumni Association and they wanted very, very much to have all the members that we had been contacting. We had the best fund raising group of anybody associated with the medical school
Dr. Seffinger: Okay, so we can come back. I’m going to end this tape, it’s 60 minutes. We can talk about the Alumni Association and what happened to it after 1974 or 1975 at that time. We can finish up talking about the initiation of the 41st Trust Fund so if we get over the 1960, 1965 era, then that would be good.